Talk:Making Complex Attacks

Yoshiboy: I'm just curious, but what needs to be done to this chapter? What kind of HOWTO should it be?

Bob the Hamster: Actually, this article is looking pretty good. It just needs more. This is a place for "recipes" for commonly desired attacks. Some example screenshots might be helpful too.

Yoshi: I want to add the attack: "Life Read" or somthing, but that idea would have come from the Wandering Hamster, the attack that can show you how much life is left, but it's your idea, so can I have permission to add it?

Bob the Hamster: I claim no ownership to any attack in Wandering Hamster... in fact, I don't believe an attack recipe is even "ownable".

Yoshi: I can't think of many pictures that would be good to put here. What kind should I add?

Bob the Hamster: I think the most useful screenshots here would be screenshots of the attack editor demonstrating particular settings or values, similar to what appears in the Bosses article. Like maybe the bitsets for a "heal" attack, or the chain settings for a critical hit attack... but one in-battle screenshots might be nice too, not because it would illustrate how to make such an attack, just because it might look good and be inspirational.

Yoshiboy Yeah ok, but I think I may just use graphics from the Wandering Hamster, I'm too lazy to draw graphics for this. :)

Scan Bug

As of Ubersetzung, scanning attacks no longer work. Is this worth mentioning? --70.58.58.104 08:29, 17 November 2007 (PST)

Bob the Hamster: You need to file a bug about it. Please provide as much detail as possible.

Failed chains

When I was looking at new and creative ways to make attack chains, and realized if there was an extra field for what attack to perform when an attack fails, we essentially create the 'else' part of a ternary, and that would allow for almost procedural attacks. (I think this would be non-deterministic programming, which is always fun!)

For example, say we're making a barbarian's rage attack. Typically, this boosts the caster's stats and you would lose control of him. But, at the end, he tires and gets a penalty.

Currently, that would be created as: [StartRage: GivePenalty, chain to rage] > [Rage: deal big damage despite penalty, chain to rage 80%].

This could be modelled as: [StartRage: GiveBonus, chain to rage] > [Rage: deal damage, chain to rage 80%, else EndRage] > [EndRage: TireCaster].

This could also model Squall's limit break from FF8:

[LimitLv1: Hit, chain to LimitLv1 70%, else Finisher1]
[LimitLv2: Hit, chain to LimitLv2 75%, else Finisher2]
[LimitLv3: Hit, chain to LimitLv3 80%, else Finisher3]
[Finisher1: chain to RoughDivide 50%]
[Finisher2: chain to BlastingZone 40% else Finisher1] (Blast 40%, Rough 30%, nothing 30%)
[Finisher3: chain to LionHeart 30% else Finisher2] (Lion 30%, Blast 28%, Rough 21%, nothing 21%)

Granted, this series of limit breaks takes 9 attack slots, but we have plenty of those anyway. This could be the closest thing we have to 'BattleScripting' for a while. Or, maybe I'm just getting ahead of myself.

80.5.59.177 09:50, 6 July 2017 (PDT) (this is Sword, but I'm having problems logging in) I was thinking about adding an explanatory section to complex attacks, and make it revolve around something called "attack nexus" An attack nexus is an attack that acts as a flow control via conditions and chaining. Users can learn how to use these blocks do reasonably complicated stuff, like passing values from dealt damage as buffs/debuffs, setting hit/miss/fail/kill tags and combo straight into another attack that checks for it (and into another attack with an effect and that turns the tag off) and things like that. Basically, multi-stage attacks with modification, checking and effect stages.

I personally think this is an easier way to create quite complex attacks with varying effects and components. Actually, I would like to see some function built in the engine to this extent so that the Attack database isn't so cluttered. Creating an attack for each step in the flow block leads to a lot of attacks in the database! Maybe something like being able to mark attacks as belonging to a specific set?

I'm not settled on the name yet either. Discussion? "Attack Flow Block"? Will this become moot when battlescripting becomes a thing?

p.s. sorry I have not been active recently. I just got a job! Whoopee! I will try to work on this wiki when I have time. No idea why I can't log in. I reset my password twice and I still can't log in.

TMC (talk): Odd; do you get the reset password email? You just get a 'bad password' error when you try the new password? I don't seem to have any ability to reset your password for you; try contacting James.

Yes, a section on chaining and tags would be great. I don't really understand what you're suggesting doing that instead of. But usually wouldn't you use instead-chains, so that there are no 'connecting'/'nexus' attacks that do nothing? Well, if you think you have a better system than that, add it. You don't need to worry about naming; that can easily be changed later.

Battlescripting isn't going to obsolete chaining, but for complicated stuff it would be easier to use a script instead of a bunch of chains.

My sister has been getting back into the OHR again (after a ~15 year break) and had a lot of comments to make about the poor state of the HOWTO, including strongly recommending removing the New HOWTO entirely from the HOWTO page. Maybe somebody will do something :)

80.5.59.177 12:49, 17 July 2017 (PDT) (Sword) I get a password reset, and I enter a new password, but it doesn't work when I try to log in. I tried 3 times. Erm. Not a big deal really, though I am considering creating a new account, because "Sword" doesn't really take my fancy.

In the attack section, what I'm proposing is having some description of flow blocks and logic control. I feel as if a flowchart could help a lot in displaying complex attack ideas.

The New HOWTO has lots of empty pages... I think the wiki in general could be improved somewhat to be clearer to newcomers, who absolutely need it the most. This extends to the main page and the sidebar as well.

TMC (talk) 06:42, 19 July 2017 (PDT): So it says it changed the password, but still doesn't accept it? Or is there no confirmation that it did or didn't work? I think I changed my wiki password a couple months ago without problem.

A flowchart diagram to explain chains? That could be good. (I recently even suggested displaying chains as a flow chart in the editor itself). Another thing you could do is take a screenshot of the attack chain browser, and explain or annotate it. You'll simultaneously be explaining it, drawing attention to it, and using it as an aid in the article. Actually, the howto/manual would be the better place for an explanation like th-oh right, this article is part of the HOWTO Extra Chapters.

Re the HOWTO: Ah, complain and you will be heard! James moved it :)

I can see that the main page is not a good landing page -- no other landing page looks like that -- but what's wrong with the sidebar? It's been changed and discussed a couple of times (mostly here). Did you also bring it up on SS? I can't remember.

Sword (talk) 08:05, 19 July 2017 (PDT) I figured out why I couldnt log in. Clicking on the log in link takes you to a page without "https://" in front of it and I have a setting on my browser that prevents my logging in if it is 'insecure'

It would be great to throw flowcharts/diagrams/annotations into the how-to.

TMC (talk) 19:34, 19 July 2017 (PDT): Log-in link in the password reset email, the top corner of the page, or after using the new password form? Either way, it sounds like it could be a mediawiki bug.